A trove of UFO-related info released by CIA

CIA releases previously secret documents related to the investigation of extraterrestrial activity on Earth.

In a move that could be seen as an extravagant promo for the recently premiered new season of the X-Files TV show, the US Central Intelligence Agency has released thousands of previously classified documents apparently related to flying saucer sightings, cattle mutilations and other activities perpetrated by the 'little gray men' while visiting our planet.
The investigations were apparently conducted up until 1978, although the majority of the related files date back to the 1940s and 1950s.

The sightings of the alleged alien craft include unidentified objects spotted in eastern Germany, Spain, North Africa and over the uranium mines of the Belgian Congo.

In a rare display of humor, the members of the rather not-so-jolly US intelligence agency said that they have released "documents we think X-Files character Agent Fox Mulder would love to use to try and persuade others of the existence of extraterrestrial activity", as well as files that "his skeptical partner, Agent Dana Scully, could use to prove there is a scientific explanation for UFO sightings."

"The truth is out there; click on the links to find it," CIA officials wryly remarked.


Two spherical-shaped UFO over Disney Park, in Florida

On January 4, 2016, a witness was in Lake Buena Vista and was watching a parade in Disney Park. He has taken a photo where he has discovered two white spherical-shaped UFO flying in the blue sky.

Witness report:

1) I was watching the parade 'Festival of Fantasy' at the Magic Kingdom.
2) I was seeing the pictures I had taken , they were good.
3) Just asked my mother what she thought , and then to my father . I found the foreign object.
4) I did not see the object in the sky , just after I saw the picture.
5) I was struck by the photo and what it could be.
6) Unfortunately I did not notice the object in the sky during the event, only after.


Very fast UFO videotaped over Queen Creek

On January 27, 2016, a very fast UFO has been filmed just over the city of Queen Creek (Maricopa County, Arizona).

Analysis from Scott C. Waring:

This video was recently posted by jmhz71 of Youtube. These are done UFOs. They record anything and everything around them for scientific purposes. They have a high curiosity that changes as fast as their speed. Here a person and this drone both notice the white floating object in the sky, but the drone UFO decides to take a close flyby of the person looking at the white object. Thats happened a few times to me before. These drones...they can read thoughts (telepathy from as far as 1/2km away! They record everything from thoughts of the people below to their tastes, touches, feelings. I got all that from a sighting long ago in South America when a guy had one on one contact. Alien tech guys.


Pyramid-shaped UFO over Old Harbor, Arkansas

On January 14, 2016, a woman and her daughter have spotted a mysterious pyramid-shaped UFO flying above us in Old Harbor, located in the state of Arkansas, USA. The two witnesses have told this story to the MUFON website...

Witness 1, My wife.
On Russian new years around 8:15pm I was headed down to the the gym to pick up my daughter. She had just called to say that only 2 of her friends and herself were there and she wanted to be picked up early. As I rounded the corner by the culvert I though I saw a shooting star off to my right, towards the hillside. As i got to the store/boat harbor area, I realized it was 3 blinking lights close together. I thought maybe it was a remote control airplane or a drone, because it was really dark out, too late for planes to fly and too close to the hillside. Also the object was flying pretty fast. I lost sight of it for a bit and drove on.
When I arrived at the school I could see the 3 girls swinging on the swing set waiting for me. My daughter came running at me full speed waiving her arms. She was all excited saying "Did u see that mom!!! It was a big drone or something right above us!! It hoovered right above us!!" I searched the sky above the school and caught site of the blinking lights. 3 colors, the object traveled fast, south, toward the church, then took a sharp left out toward the bay. It headed strait to the airstrip fast! I thought it was going to land. My daughter wanted me to follow it. I turned by the post office and headed for home. We were almost back to the culvert when we spotted it heading our way from the airstrip. It was still out over the bay, my daughter wanted me to stop the truck. She said it was coming closer to check us out, that freaked me out but I stopped the truck anyway at the first beach pull off after the culvert. I looked just in time to see the blinking lights fly up higher, fast and go towards the hillside. We continued home and got out of the truck and looked towards the hillside just in time to see the lights go up, over the hill and disappear.

Witness 2, My daughter.
On Russian New years eve, my two friends and I left night gym early. As I waited for my mom, I heard a buzzing noise, almost like a blow drier. I was swinging on the swing set and we saw it hoover for some 5 minutes about 8 feet above us. After my mom pulled up, it glided toward the church and then over the ocean toward the airport.
This drone type object was about the size of the hood of a truck and was diamond/pyramid shaped, u could see several layer/steps, top to bottom and a different light on each side, red, green, orange and white.
After we saw it gliding towards the airport my mom turned the truck off the road and I could see the drone was tracking us. We continued home and after parking in our drive way we saw it glide over the mountains and out of sight.


Green orb caught in Tampa, in Florida

On January 10, 2016, a person has caught, without knowing it, a green and bright orb. This mysterious UFO appeared on two photos in different locations, which means that it moved slowly and silently.

Witness report:

Tampa. In process of taking photos of strange smoke trail in sky caused by missile? UFO captured by accident, i did not notice till later.


White circular-shaped UFO over Encino, Texas

On January 28, 2016, while driving, an automobilist has photographed a white circular-shaped in the blue sky over Encino, in Texas.

Witness statement:

As I drove North on US HWY 281 I noticed smoke from a grass or house fire ahead. As I got a bit closer I observed a bright circular light in the sky. While driving I was able to get a picture of the object. It seemed to be keeping an eye on the fire.


Metallic flying saucer caught in La Aurora, Argentina

On January 2016, an incredible metallic flying saucer has been photographed, by accident, in the area of La Aurora, in Argentina.

Scott C. Waring explains:

The fact is, most people just don't look up. If you come to this site, then you probably are the exception to that rule. Also, this UFO is ring shaped. It has an opening in its bottom that goes to its top. I can make out that the ring is made up of many small sides. Its shape is like an octagon donut. Extraordinary catch.

News states:

UFO in sight: where was this photo taken? It was taken last week with the mere intention to portray the characteristics of the place. However, the photographer was surprised to see in the picture an unidentifiable flying object. "The person took the picture with a mobile phone, and it is my understanding and I can attest that, it is a serious and responsible person," he told Dr. (lawyer, teacher and psychologist) Ruben Diaz. It was taken in the countryside La Aurora, the area establishing Daymán Salto (ROU), a place that became a center of controversy since the 1970s is said that there had been a number of sightings. Since then they have traveled to the place many times, most tourists arrive from Argentina, but have not been able to witness other sightings. Last week the person provided that the person declined to identify the photograph. It was discovered only when looking at the image, so it is presumed that it could be an unidentified flying object.


Possible flying saucer photographed in Colorado

On January 22, 2016, a witness was walking somewhere in the mountains near Antonito, Colorado. He caught some photos of landscape without noticed of the UFO flying in the sky…

Witness statement:

I was just taking a picture of the landscape and mountains. A few days later I was looking at the pictures and noticed the object. I didn't see the object at the time of the picture. I don't know what it is or could be.


Blazing white UFO spotted over Miami, USA

On January 26, 2016, an automobilist was driving on a road in Miami (in the state of Florida) when he has seen a mysterious UFO. After a few minutes, object has disappeared but witness has had enough time to take a photo.

Witness report:

Was driving on the Bird Road street when suddenly this object catched my atention, it was hovering and shining very strong, it stayed for about 4 minutes and started to dissapear in about 15 seconds. It made a side ways move and it started to get thinner and thinner till it dissapeared I catched this because i always pay attention to the skies and this is not my first time in events like this.


White UFO change shape over San Antonio

On January 23, 2016, a UFO has been filmed over the city of San Antonio, in Texas. Object was changing regularly shape. It was white and bright. What is it?

Scott C. Waring explains:

These UFOs are appear all over the world, but are easiest to see during the day when there are few clouds and a blue sky. I caught a similar one in Taiwan on Nov 2015. I didn't have a zoom like this guy. I only had a phone. Great catch. It is probably recording human history. Something we tend to forget and alter.

Eyewitness states:

For those unfamiliar with this phenomenon U.F.O VARIABLE....It is believed that these Crafts are converting the Suns Energy into Electromagnetic to travel around..If you pay close attention you will notice these U.F.O's have spheres that rotates inside them....According to the Hypotheses Thermomagnetic: In reality these spheres are converting Suns Energy into Electromagnetic.. I have researched this subject and come to realized this a Real Phenomenon..In my opinion i believe to have captured one traveling overhead...Thanks to my good friend and fellow Skywatcher Jason Bales...For a first we will clearly see it change shape..And witness for yourself as these U.F.O Orbs move around inside its structure...Rare look at how these U.F.Os Interact.... A High Definition Camera was used EQUIPMENT:JVC GZ-HD3U


Translucent boormerang-shaped UFO seen over Kitakami

On January 10, 2012, an inhabitant of Kitakami (city located in Iwate Prefecture, in Japan) was walking his dog when he has spotted a large translucent boomerang-shaped UFO flying in the sky…

Witness report:

I was walking my dog near my home as I always do at the same time every evening.
The area is a park in front of my house.
It was snowing with no wind and it was a full moon so it was quite bright with the reflection
Of moonlight off the snow.
Snow was falling straight down to the ground. I was on why way back to my home when I heard a roaring sound coming from my left side(north side) I looked but could see nothing.
I heard it go over my head but could still see nothing until it passed to my right side. At that moment I saw a translucent boomerang shape with about a three meter wing span flying directly south towards a large fir tree. It was about two meters above my head and I only noticed it because of the trail of snow going over the objects sharp angled wings. I am certain the object was invisible apart from this.
I was in a state of shock. I took the dog home and went back because I was sure it must have hit the fir tree. But could find nothing.
I told my wife and a few friends about it but most mostly laughed at so I haven't really spoken to anybody about it since for fear of being ridiculed.
It's been a few years since the sighting and I can't remember the exact year and month.

Photo: 北上・みちのく芸能まつりの鬼剣舞 (Yoshi Canopus / Wikimedia) - CC 表示-継承 3.0


Large UFO caught during a storm in England

One day of May 2012, two work colleagues were traveling on a road in England. The passenger tried to take a photo of a lightning. When he has watched his photos, he discovered on one of them one or perhaps two UFO.

Witness statement:

About 4 years ago myself and my work colleague were traveling on counrty roads through Lincolnshire in the UK. We were heading straight into a big thunder storm with a lot of lightening happening infront of us as we drove into the storm area. I was the passenger in the car and so I took my phone out of my pocket and tried to catch a flash of lighting as my colleague drove into the storm. I took 3 photo's but I was very disapointed because I did not catch one flash of lightening. It was many months latter when I looked again at the 3 photo,s on my phone before deleting them, thats when I noticed a stange shape / anomaly in one of the photo,s. I have to say at the time of taking the photo's nothing could been seen in the sky apart from the intence lightening straight ahead. I saved these 3 photo,s to my pc and thats were they have stayed ever since. I was unsure what do with this photo ???? once I let it go on line its just out there, thats why I am writing to you now. Your site and your seem's to credit the people who see and film these strange anomalys. This not a fake photo, I am not smart enough on a pc to even try anything like that.As you can see there is nothing on the other 2 photo's taken at the same time, its strange ? I did send this picture to a well know Youtube site some months ago at their request but I never heard anything back from them, I hope you might be able to use this picture or maybe identify what it could be in the photo.


The world’s smallest nightclub is the size of a phone booth

Teledisko’, the world’s smallest disco, is probably the most exclusive party place you can find. Started by German telecommunications company Deutsche Telekom, the nightclub – a repurposed phone booth located in the Berlin’s trendy Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg district – can only accommodate two people at a time.

The coin-operated entry ensures that no one but you and your chosen friends can access the bright yellow party booth. Inside, Teledisko has all the trimmings of a proper nightclub – a smoke machine, stroboscope, light effects, a disco ball, dry ice, and a touchscreen that lets you select and play your favorite music. The cramped interiors might prevent you from taking selfies, but the booth comes with a built-in camera that takes pictures and records videos of your unforgettable night.

Deutsche Telekom originally repurposed just three phone booths into telediskos – two at fixed locations in Berlin and a third one that could be moved to any location you wanted to hold your party at – but it seems high demand has convinced them to create even more tiny nightclubs.

If you’re in love with this new way of partying, you can actually get a booth of your own. Deutsche Telekom is apparently converting more yellow booths into nightclubs and selling them at €350 (about $380) apiece. You’ll just have to personally pick yours up from a ‘phone booth graveyard’ near Potsdam. Sounds like a great souvenir to bring back from Germany!


Black flying saucer caught over Halifax, UK

On January 22, 2016, a person was walking his dog in a park located in Halifax (United-Kingdom) when he has photographed a black disc-shaped UFO in the sky. What is it?

Witness statement:

On Friday early evening i was walking my dog in the local park when i noticed that the moon look good in the sky. Using my samsung galaxy S4 i took 2 photos (with a gap of about 20 secs. between the pics) of the moon through the tree's, then put my phone away and forgot about it until today.

I checked my photo's today and spotted something strange on the 2nd of the 2 pics taken. There seemed to be something passing (at speed) in front of the moon. I zoomed into this object and found it to be saucer shaped. I do not know how big or how far away the object was. It wasn't generating any noise that i could hear.

It could have been a bird as i was in a wooded area but at the time i never noticed anything whilst taking the photo's.

Sorry if I've wasted anyone's time but i thought i would report it just in case.


Bright cigar-shaped UFO over Louisville, KY

On December 15, 2015, a person living in Louisville (in the state of Kentucky) was in his home when he has spotted a bright cigar-shaped UFO in the blue sky. He has caught a photo of the object. What it was?

Witness statement:

I was at home on my patio on a nice sunny, slightly hazy day and had been working in the yard and my back was hurting so I got into my zero gravity reclining chair to relax for a minute. I wasn't there probably a minute,looking straight up in the air because I was in a completely reclined position,and I saw what looked like an airliner with no wings or tailpiece,just the tube flying directly overhead and lower than an airliner that isn't coming in to land or taking off,probably under a mile high. It appeared white in color and about the same length as a 757. It was traveling to the northeast at a good rate of speed,but not unusually fast I would say. I watch the sky alot and live several miles from Louisville International Airport and rarely see planes traveling in this direction. I was kind of stunned when I first saw it because I could see the craft very well,yet no sign of wings. My camera was right next to me because I always try to be ready for my next sighting,but I was so fixated on trying to find wings and if it was worthy of a photo that I hesitated before I grabbed it. It traveled about 10-15 seconds and then it was about 15 degrees from strait up and the sun hit it and reflected off and still no wings. The only explanation I could come up with was the wings could have been painted a dark color that blended with the sky and weren't reflective so they weren't visible. I decided I better take a photo at this point so maybe I could zoom in later to see it better. I just pulled this up this morning 1/23/16 for the first time along with another sighting I had in December,and decided to send it in and see what you all think.


Weird spherical-shaped UFO over North Fork

On January 1st, 2016, a witness was in North Fork (in the state of California). In the evening, during sunset, he has photographed a mysterious spherical-shaped UFO...

Witness statement:

I was in North Fork California at 4:18 p.m. on January 1st 2016. I was taking photographs of the sunset and sky as I normally do when I go up to that area. I didn't notice anything in particular in the sky since there were clouds... When I came home four hours later and enlarged the photographs and I noticed the object. it appeared from the photographs that it was moving from south to north possibly south east to North West. I didn't notice it at all at the time I took the photographs but only when I came home and enlarge them. I used a samsung galaxy 5 phone to take the pictures. I don't know what it is, it kept the same shape but the lights on it changed from the pictures, even seeming to turn into a blur in one of the pictures.


5 bright UFO appeared in central Bogota

On January 21, 2016, five blue shining and unidentified UFO are appeared, during night, over the city of Bogota, in Colombia. Regularly, these bright balls were moving and changing pattern.

Witness report:

I didn't witness the event. See the news on facebook, approximately an hour after it happens. I start to look for it on google, found a video on youtube, and the local newspapers began to report pictures and videos from people on Instagram and Twitter. There are five balls emitting an intense blue light, it happen between 8 and 9 pm, moving in the sky, one not far away from each other and changing their pattern of flight, sometimes is a V pattern, then an M pattern. I don't know what happened at the end of the event, if they landed or disappeared, I don't know. There are many witnesses, apparently.


Black UFO seen near an aiplane

On April 23, 2012, somewhere in Florida, a man named Anthony has seen, near an airplane, a black UFO. Witness has had enough time to caught a photo of this object. What do you think?

Witness statement:

I saw the airplane and saw something beside the plane I had just picture my camera with me and shot the then I saw how the object 6 times as fast as the plane direction of the sea is veschunden . it was so fast . it was a great experience in my vacation .

Best wishes Anthony


Cigar-shaped spotted over Grants Pass, Oregon

On January 20, 2016, a person was in the city of Grants Pass (in the state of Oregon, USA). Outside, he saw an impressive cigar-shaped UFO. Unfortunately, witness didn't catch photo or video…

Witness statement:

I was outside of my home having a cigar and a light to the north caught my eye. At first I thought it was a plane or helicopter as it followed a horizontal line parallel to the northern horizon above the city. Then it abruptly shot up and to the left then hovered. It the abruptly shot to the right and descended at a 90 degree angle straight down to the horizon itself. Then shot back up to its original position then descended abruptly out of sight. I had seen ufos in the past periodically but this had the same characteristics of a ufo encounter I had at four yrs old.

Photo: Welcome sign in Grants Pass (Joseph Novak / Wikimedia) - CC BY 2.0


UFO observing J. Wayne while he made Rio Grande movie

In 1950, during the making of Rio Grande's film with John Wayne, an unidentified flying object is appeared in front of the camera. This cigar-shaped UFO is white and bright and we can see its movements.

Scott C. Waring explains :

This UFO is in the background during a romantic scene with John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara which was filmed back in 1950. People will try to say it was shot on a Hollywood set, however that is not true. All sources state that the movie Rio Grande was directed by John Ford and made in Monument Valley, Utah near the city of Moab along the Colorado River.

The mountains of Utah, hot and dry, just the way some species of aliens like it. Utah is no stranger to UFOs so I am to surprised, but I am delighted that aliens were observing an all time favorite like John Wayne. They watch for his fame and because he influenced a lot of guys in all generations. He was able to make the audience not just see, but feel as if they were him in that situation.

Paranormal of Youtube states:

This is a great clip a UFO appearing when they are filming a scene in the movie Rio Grande look behind John Waynes head and watch it fly back and forth.


Long bright UFO caught in North Wales, PA

On January 17, 2016, a witness was in the home of his girlfriends located in North Wales (Pennsylvania, USA) when he has seen an orb like figure. This luminous UFO was able to change shape. Impressive…

Witness report:

I was at my girlfriends parents house when i went out back on the deck to catch a smoke just looking up at the sky when i noticed what i thought at first was just a bright star. As i continued to observe the light i noticed that it was actually moving. Not moving to left to right or up or down but it was moving a if it was changing shapes. I had a eire feeling while i was observing this object like it knew i was looking at it or something. So i ran inside the house and grabbed my girlfriends camera and took as many photos as possible. Each picture I took the object had a different look from a ball like orb to a worm like abject. Once i took that pictures i began to go through them all and zoomed in to see what the hell it was. When i zoomed in i got some really strange pictures of this worm like orb. Also in one of the photos that i noticed there was another object that wasn't white in color like the one i was observing that was in the top right corner of the picture and it was a long worm like figure that was a brownish copper color that seem to have what i could describe as 5 round joints and on each joint it looked like there was blue sphere like objects on each joint. I finally lost sight of the object and that was the end of that.


Yellow orb caught over Darlington, Great Britain

On January 20, 2016, a woman living in Darlington (Great Britain) caught a photo a sunset since her home. When she has watched her pictures, she has noticed a mysterious yellow orb moving in the sky…

Witness statement:

My wife likes to take sunset picture from our attic. She showed me two she took tonight and I noticed the strange light.

I downloaded them from here phone to my PC and zoomed in. The first photo is labelled UFO2 at 16:07 and 46 seconds. The second shots are UFO 1 taken at 16:07 and 56 seconds. All according to camera data.

What struck me as strange, being a pilot and photographer, it that this object moved. Not only did it move but the internal lights changed from 5 to 6. And the 6 were not in what you could call a formation.

In the pictures the object shape never changed, the orange glow.

Given that only 10 seconds elapsed between shots, this object must have been moving very fast.


Black UFO caught over Escondido, in California

On November 2, 2014, a family was in their car and drove in a road in Escondido (in California). One of them has taken some photos of the trip. On these images, the witness has noticed a black UFO.

Witness statement:

My husband, brother in law and I were in Escondido, on Valley Parkway on our way to Jack in the Box. I took pictures when we were driving because I grew up in Escondido and I was just taking pictures randomly. I was in the back seat.

It was around 3pm and cold enough to wear light jackets.

I did not notice anything in the sky when I took the pictures and noticed the objects when I got home a few days later.

In the first picture, there is this black thing that resembles a blimp? But there was no blimp in the sky at the time. I also notice a gray orb on top of the mountain directly in front of the car and some strange black things in the sky above one of the palm trees.

In the second picture, the black thing is still in the sky but the gray orb is no longer on top of the mountain it has moved up up in the sky right beneath the cloud. The black things are still there.

in the third picture, this thing is still in the sky and there are also black dots in the left top part of the picture.

The thing is, we were on the other side of town when third picture was taken and this black thing still shows up.

You must enlarge these pictures to see the orb, black things and black dots :)

In a recent picture someone else just posted of the city of New York, the object in the sky resembled a fish, just like this one so I figured it was time to post these pictures.


According Donald Rumsfeld, a missile hit Pentagon

In an exclusive interview given on a gouvernemental website, Donald Rumsfeld, the 21st United States Secretary of Defense between 2001 and 2006, has certified they were a missile that has hit the Pentagon and the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.


(Interview with Lyric Wallwork Winik, Parade Magazine)

Q: Let me start by asking you, most of us are programmed to leave a building with smoke. What made you go towards the fire here a little over a month ago, and what was going through your mind?

Rumsfeld: Well, I was sitting here and the building was struck, and you could feel the impact of it very clearly, and I don't know what made me do anything I did, to be honest with you. I just do it instinctive. I looked out the window, saw nothing here, and then went down the hall until the smoke was too bad, then to a stairwell down and went outside and saw what had happened. Asked a person who'd seen it, and he told me that a plane had flown into it.

I had been aware of a plane going into the World Trade Center, and I saw people on the grass, and we just, we tried to put them in stretchers and then move them out across the grass towards the road and lifted them over a jersey wall so the people on that side could stick them into the ambulances.

I was out there for awhile, and then people started gathering, and we were able to get other people to do that, to hold IVs for people. There were people lying on the grass with clothes blown off and burns all over them.

Then at some moment I decided I should be in here figuring out what to do, because your brain begins to connect things, and there were enough people there to worry about that. I came back in here, came into this office. There was smoke in here by then.

We made a judgment about where people should be. The chairman was out of town, so he was separate. The vice chairman was with me. We had my deputy go out to another site. At a certain point it got too bad and we went into a room about 30 yards away here in this building, in the same general area but back that way that is sealable. But as it turns out it wasn't sealable for smoke and so forth. We worked in there, and we kept being told the building had to be evacuated completely except for the people that were in that group that were assisting me, and they kept saying you should get out of here because these people have to stay if you're here, as I recall. I said fine, we'll do that at the appropriate time.

They were able to get enough of the fire out and then move some air out that the increasing smoke stopped. It did not disappear, but it stopped. We were in there throughout the day, and never did go to (inaudible).

The advantage for me was I could be here near where the problems were and I had full communications from the area -- to the president and the vice president, the secretary of state. I guess he was out of the country, wasn't he? It was the deputy.

Q: In the interest of time I'm going to move you along. I'm sorry if I seem rude --

Rumsfeld: Not at all.

Q: This is a question that's been asked by many Americans, but especially by the widows of September 11th. How were we so asleep at the switch? How did a war targeting civilians arrive on our homeland with seemingly no warning?

Rumsfeld: There were lots of warnings. The intelligence information that we get, it sometimes runs into the hundreds of alerts or pieces of intelligence a week. One looks at the worldwide, it's thousands. And the task is to sort through it and see what you can find. And as you find things, the law enforcement officials who have the responsibility to deal with that type of thing -- the FBI at the federal level, and although it is not, it's an investigative service as opposed to a police force, it's not a federal police force, as you know. But the state and local law enforcement officials have the responsibility for dealing with those kinds of issues.

They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them.

Q: Please briefly explain to our readers why it's not enough just to get bin Laden and al Qaeda. Why this threat ought to extend beyond that.

Rumsfeld: Well, because they have trained any number of people that are spread all across the globe, but there are a number of terrorist networks in a number of countries that have harbored terrorists, and to deal with one and ignore the rest would be to misunderstand the nature of the problem.

There is a correlation, really, between the countries that sponsor terrorism, and the countries that have been weaponizing chemical and biological, and they're working diligently to develop nuclear capability for the most part. Not in each case. But that nexus is something that ought to be of concern to people. Were that connection to occur, obviously you're talking not about thousands of people, but hundreds of thousands.

Q: What it sounds like you're saying too in this process then is that we're going to need to address Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, particularly in the light of even the evidence that with inspectors Saddam continued to build his arsenal through the 1990s and now we don't know what exactly has happened. Is that going to be a top priority as well?

Rumsfeld: Those are decisions for the president, but he has been very clear that he is deeply concerned about the problem of terrorism. He is going to find terrorists and keep them out and root them out, and he's going to create an environment that suggests to countries that are harboring them that they ought to stop.

Q: Unlike some of our previous conflicts abroad, a lot of our efforts at the moment are concentrated in a part of the world where portions of the population are hostile to us, both allies and enemies. A Washington Post editorial spoke pretty eloquently to this subject yesterday.

Can you talk a little bit about your thoughts about the balance we have to strike between the politics of the reason, even some of the propaganda that exists in the region, and our own security interests?

Rumsfeld: We have to look at our security interests for sure. Given the lethality of weaponry today and the proliferation of those technologies, we have no choice.

By the same token we have to be sensitive that there are inevitably going to be at least the potential for secondary effects or non-intuitive threats that could occur. Some of those can be advantageous. That is to say people can change their ways, or there may be new alignments where we share common problems, that our relationships with people three, four, five years down the road might be notably different than they were previously, for the good.

By the same token, to go to the heart of your question, you're right. It is important that we do everything humanly possible to do what we must do in a way that is sensitive to our many allies in the region and the problems they have because of, to use your words, the propaganda that is being put forward by terrorists. This effort clearly has nothing to do with any religion, it has nothing to do with any race, it has nothing to do with any particular country. It has to do with terrorists and terrorist networks. In the case of Afghanistan they've pretty well taken over the country. But not totally.

Q: In hindsight, might the last decade be called the decade of neglect? We didn't even maintain spare parts for our military planes. What lessons should we as a people and our political leaders learn from the 1990s?

Rumsfeld: You're correct. They called it a procurement holiday, which is a euphemistic way of characterizing starving the defense establishment from needed capabilities.

The lesson is a lesson that it's a shame, but we really ought not to have to keep learning it. One would think we would be wise enough as a people to learn from history and to know that today we're spending a very modest percentage of our gross domestic product on defense. When a crisis occurs we suddenly say oh, my goodness, we can spend all we need to. Well, of course we can. But the thing to do is to spend it when you don't need to. Then you don't have to spend as much. Then it's the deterrent effect and the capability effect that you have that dissuades people from doing things like this. But to the extent you get relaxed and say well, my goodness, there's no real threat today, we can not worry about things, and allow your investment to decline, you then find that you have to increase it more than you otherwise would have and you have to do it because of a crisis. I guess Benjamin Franklin or somebody said that necessity is the mother of invention, but this country can afford to spend anything it needs to on our national security.

When I first came to Washington in the Eisenhower/Kennedy years, we were spending 10 percent of our gross domestic product on national security. When I was here as secretary of defense some 25 years ago, it was 7, 6, 5, percent, in that range, as I recall. Now it's down in the 2.8 or 9 percent.

We are perfectly capable of spending whatever we need to spend. The world economy depends on the United States [contributing] to peace and stability. That is what underpins the economic health of the world, including the United States.

To think that we want to skim on our national security and put in jeopardy the world economy, put in jeopardy our economic circumstance in this country it's so short sighted and so immature and reflects a lack of a capability to understand history.

Q: Looking forward as well as looking back, you've been very forward looking in your plans for the RMA. Now we're looking at transforming the military under duress and in an accelerated timeframe in a conflict. How do you prepare for the next war while you fight this one?


Rumsfeld: You're looking for bumper stickers.

Q: No, not bumper stickers. You can go more in depth than that. We can handle it.

Rumsfeld: Well, one would hope our country would be wise enough to do it skillfully, but what we have to do is not look at existing threats, meaning countries or people. We need to look at capabilities. The kinds of capabilities that exist across the globe and that are revolving and spreading.

So rather than having a threat-based strategy we have fashioned a capability-based strategy that says we can't know of certainly knowledge where a specific threat will come from or when it will come because capabilities are so widely disbursed today. But we can expect those threats to come, and we can make a reasonably good estimate as to what kinds of capabilities we will need to deter and defend against those threats when they do occur, regardless of where they come from.

It was a paradigm shift in thinking that has been lost as a result of these terrorist attacks. But it is a significant conceptual transition or paradigm shift for our country that has taken place.

Q: Bio-terrorism is threatening a lot of Americans. How serious is this threat? Do we need a new Manhattan style project to deal with this? Are there other asymmetrical threats that you're more concerned about? And then one little tag on the end of that, given the concentration of political, government, and military leadership in Washington, how safe is this city in particular?

Rumsfeld: I worry about all the asymmetrical threats. One must do so. We know there are not significant armies, navies and air forces that can [test] us. Now one of the reasons there aren't is because we have capable armies, navies and air forces, and that dissuades people from thinking that that could be an asymmetrical advantage for them if we lacked a Navy or an Army or an Air Force.

Now therefore, what do they do? They go to the seams. They look for ways that they can advantage themselves using our technology, our capabilities, because of proliferation, things that we have pioneered, and for which we do not have ready defenses, and those are the ones you mentioned. They are terrorism, they are ballistic missiles, they are cruise missiles, they're weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological, and nuclear, and cyber attacks potentially.

I mean of all the countries in the world, we are more dependent on space and more dependent on information technology than any nation on the face of the earth, and they're all, they all represent weaknesses, if you will -- strengths on the one hand, but weaknesses on the other, because we have not hardened ourselves against those kinds of threats.

In the case of terrorism, because it's so difficult to do; in the case of -- We're working on cruise missiles and ballistic missiles, but there's been some sort of a battle in our country on the issue for many years, which has delayed and impeded progress. With respect to cyber warfare and weapons of mass destruction, those are things that are going to take a great deal more effort on our part. And homeland defense clearly was part of our defense strategy review well before the September 11th attack for the very reason that you suggested in your question, because of these asymmetrical attacks.

I'm talking as fast as I can.

Q: You're doing a great job. You're making life much easier.

Mr. Secretary, what goes through your mind when you commit American troops to war?

Rumsfeld: Well, if you're going to put people's lives at risk you better have a damn good reason.

Q: If things become difficult in this war -- it looks like it's going to be long, if there are setbacks or losses, what will you turn to for strength? What are you drawing strength from now?

Rumsfeld: Say that again.

Q: If this war becomes increasingly difficult, lasts for a long period of time, if there are setbacks or losses as there almost always are in most wars, what will you turn to for strength? What will you draw upon? And is there anything in particular that you're drawing upon already now?

Rumsfeld: Well, I guess you'd say the United States of America represents something so important to the world, our way of life, our free way of life. If one looked down from Mars on earth you would find that only a handful of countries are really capable of providing for their people, and where the people provide for themselves. That is to say where the political and economic structures are such that the maximum benefit for the most people is achieved.

That is a big idea. That is something that is important. And we have to see -- if you care about human beings across the globe, you have to care that that example and that model, that engine for prosperity that benefits not just the people in our country but people across the globe, succeeds.

And in a world where, as human beings we know that people are imperfect and there are a lot of people who are, for a variety of reasons, engaged in doing evil things. And vicious things. And lethal things. Therefore, if we value that and if we value the people of the United States, there's no question but that we have to be willing to defend that way of life and to do that, people have to voluntarily put their lives at risk. Thank goodness we've got wonderful people, men and women in the armed services, who are willing to do that.

Q: Finally, one last question. Many people today shun public service, avoid public office. Why serve? Why did you choose to serve again?

Rumsfeld: I guess I had a practice of that over the decades. That plaque says, "Fighting for the right is the noblest force the world [affords]." (inaudible).

Q: I need to wait for the photographer to come in.

Are there any special challenges that we're facing as a nation as part of this war? Something that you think the American people need to be aware of?

Rumsfeld: There is one. Throughout our history, free people are free to be wise, and to be unwise. That's part of what freedom is. We've concluded that it's better than philosopher kings or dictators. If that's the case and one looks at our history and knows that that's the case, that means we can make mistakes, and if we're what, 260 or 70 years old, 80 years old as a country, we know we've made some mistakes. We've behaved in ways that have allowed crises to turn into conflicts through inattention, by thinking something was improbable, like the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; by saying something that led people to believe it was okay for them to do something like invade Korea. We survived all of that in reasonably good form. There's been a lot of loss of life in human treasure as well as material treasure. But that was a different period. That was before weapons of mass destruction. We do not have that, what do you call it, a margin for error?

Q: That luxury.

Rumsfeld: Yeah. We don't have the luxury of making a mistake that big today. We have to be sufficiently -- We have to behave to a higher standard as free people. We are not as free to be as inattentive as we have on occasion been in the past. We're not as free to make a misjudgment as to what's probably or not probable because if we do make that mistake instead of hundreds of people or thousands of people, it's hundreds of thousands of people and potentially millions of people. That's (inaudible).

Q: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. It was fascinating.

I have something quickly for you from my husband who I think you know. The president loved the book as (inaudible) and Secretary Cheney (inaudible) on Saturday night for dinner, and we wanted you to have a copy. I don't know when you'll get the time, but --

Q: Am I allowed to accept this?